By Larry Lawrence
Is newly-crowned AMA Superbike champ Josh Hayes as good as Mat Mladin or Ben Spies? How does he compare to past AMA Superbike champs such as Wes Cooley, Eddie Lawson, Fred Merkel, Doug Chandler, Doug Polen, Miguel Duhamel, Scott Russell or Wayne Rainey? Just where does Hayes, the rider who just turned in the most dominant season of any rider in AMA Superbike history, fall in the pecking order?
Comparing riders of different eras always brings out spirited debate as well as criticism. I once wrote a piece in Cycle News simply pointing out that in motocross those who considered Ricky Carmichael versus Bob Hannah the best rider in AMA Motocross history was largely based on one’s age. Those over 40 generally say Hurricane and while the younger generation has no doubt its RC. You would have thought I sparked World War III. The letters to the editor came fast and furious for weeks.
In terms of ranking AMA Superbike riders, specifically where Hayes fits in, on paper it should be a no brainer. The stats he threw up this season are simply staggering, not to mention record setting. It was a dream season for the likable rider from Mississippi. Hayes scored an amazing 16 wins this season. Think about that for a second. His wins just for 2012 alone would rank Hayes in the top 10 on the all-time AMA Superbike wins list; in fact it would put him tied for seventh with Rainey. Granted, we’re talking the doubleheader era here, but still that record alone should put Hayes in consideration for all-time best.
Along with posting the record for most wins in a season, Hayes also established the new mark for most consecutive wins (ten), tied the record for most consecutive poles (eleven) and most poles in a season (ten). He also moved into a tie for second with most Superbike titles (three), and moved past Duhamel for sole possession of second-place on the all-time Superbike wins list (33).
We’re talking the most epic of epic seasons here.
Yet it doesn’t feel like it.
As I see it, the problem Hayes faces in terms of his place in history is not one of his own making. It’s simply this – Hayes’ competition is weaker than Minnesota-made hot sauce.
Sorry, but a fact’s a fact.
Maybe I shouldn’t be so frank in my assessment of the rest of the Superbike field, but I’ve followed the series since its inception in 1976 and I can say that this is truly one of the low-water marks of overall talent of the series. With the exception of the first couple of seasons of the series and perhaps a short period in the mid-1980s, AMA Superbike has never seen such a dearth.
Of the entire field this season the only other rider I get excited about watching race other than Hayes is Danny Eslick. For sure Eslick is a little rough around the edges, but holy shit is he fun to watch or what?
What about Blake Young you say? Yes… Young ranks on one of my all-time AMA Superbike lists – all-time most overrated. What he did after crashing at Road Atlanta and coming back to win gave a lot of people hope that he was the real deal, but by Mid-Ohio and beyond Young showed that he didn’t quite have the right stuff to run with Hayes.
As far of the rest of the field? Excuse me I feel a yawn coming on.
I mean seriously… let’s look at the rest of the top 10.
You never know which Roger Lee Hayden is going to show up from week to week. Usually it’s the leisurely one. Josh Herrin on a Superbike? His racing lines resemble something drawn up by a spasmodic three-year-old on an Etch A Sketch.
Geoff May is an earnest rider who’s hit a talent ceiling. Ben Bostrom brings it strong… once or twice a season, whether he needs to or not. Larry Pegram is a great team owner and TV reality star. Steve Rapp, a scrapper but a little long in the tooth and Chris Ulrich’s body is an orthopedic surgeon’s retirement fund.
So in spite of his gaudy numbers Hayes is a victim of his competition. The fans and journalists I’ve talked to all respect Hayes, but no one I know puts him on the same level as a Ben Spies or Mat Mladin.
If pressed I’d say Hayes is most like Fred Merkel, at least in terms of his AMA career. Like Hayes, Merkel put up some astounding numbers in AMA Superbike, but for most of those years he was the lone factory rider racing against a field of privateers.
Merkel’s legacy was saved by two things – he beat Wayne Rainey head to head in 1986 and then of course he went on to win two World Superbike Championships.
If a decent World Superbike ride is available maybe Hayes should consider making the jump, even it means a pay cut. It’s about the only way I see him getting the kind of respect he deserves.
Enzo Assainte says:
Bravo, Larry. Few people watching the series have the…ahem…”guts” to speak the truth. I think there are many factors. Of all prior superbike champs, Josh is in the running to be one of the most like-able guys out there. That really has nothing to do with good racing though. They are 2 separate things. Likeable/deserving & good racing have little to do with one another. There is a discussion on the WERA board with regard to what will happen if Honda leaves MotoGP due to the changes proposed. Some Honda haters say “good riddance” & cite that AMA racing is great without them. I point to the current AMA series & note that the support classes do have great racing, but that the Superbike class is a joke. Yes, some great riders, but none of it results in a good race anymore. Those too young or with short memories think that it can’t be that bad. I say it can be. Honda may be the devil in many peoples eyes & with good reason, but the current AMA Superbike Series is a perfect example of what happens when competition exits a series. In MotoGP, Yamaha HATES Honda, but we both know that Yamaha wants Honda in the series so they can beat them. Yamaha wants to show the world that they are better than Honda & the only way they can do that is to beat them on the track. Having Honda leave is not one of Yamaha’s goals & informed people know that. It’s the same in AMA. Is Yamaha perfectly happy to win Superbike Championships one after another in this fashion? Maybe. Those who know the history of motorcycle racing know that winning championships in a series nearly void of competition is not only hollow for those winning, but it is also a detriment to the series itself. Only time will tell what will happen in this instance, but there are plenty of instances that one can site where the result was a big change in racing because of a lack of competition.
October 11, 2012, 11:33 amadmin says:
Enzo,
October 11, 2012, 12:28 pmI agree to a certain extent, but it doesn’t always hold that Honda needs to be there to make things competitive. It helps for sure, but think about when Honda pulled out of AMA superbike after the 1988 season. 1989 turned out to be a great year with Jamie James and Scott Russell battling for the championship and you had others in the series like Rich Arnaiz, Donald Jacks, Doug Chandler, Dave Sadowski, Dale Quarterley, Tom Kipp, Mike Harth, Rueben McMurter, etc. Maybe it’s a generational thing, but to me that was just a deeper talent pool even though Honda wasn’t there.
Enzo Assainte says:
Larry,
October 11, 2012, 1:23 pmWhen i posted on the WERA board, i noted that it was not every time that Honda left that things went bad, but there were times when it did. In the instance you pointed out, it worked out fine for the AMA & was the beginning of possibly the best era of AMA Superbike racing.
A couple things come to mind. Rewind 5 years from that point. Do you remember Freddie Spencer winning races by 30 & 45 seconds in AMA series? Lapping up to second place in some instances? That’s great for Spencer fans, but if you just wanted to see great racing, you were in the wrong place, which i feel is where AMA Superbike is right now. Was that Honda’s fault? Or was it Honda taking advantage of the rules as they were available to them? It was perfectly legal & boring to watch.
In the 88/89 AMA season you pointed out, yes, there was a very deep talent pool & no constraints that current MotoGP regulations have. You noted entries by all 4 Japanese manufacturers with no limit as to how many bikes they could have on the grid. If Honda leaves MotoGP, there will be ONE Japanese manufacturer who can enter a maximum of 4 bikes. Not quite the same. Take away the 4 prototype Hondas in MotoGP & 4 more prototypes won’t magically fill the grid. Very different than AMA racing that has a completely different & far easier criteria that needs to be met in order to compete.
It matters not what Honda wants or feels that they should get in MotoGP. It has nothing to do with brand loyalty. If Honda were to leave MotoGP (whether justified in anyones eyes or not) then one brand would be riding around by themselves. Think 2003 World Superbike Championship.
For sure there are generational differences. I lived that late 80’s early 90’s era when there was no official Honda team & the racing was great, but i guess all i can say is what you said; that there is a greater talent pool that propped the series up. Sometimes the series needs manufacturer input & other times, they don’t. I, like you, feel there is a weak field right now & one team hiring one rider is not simply going to fix it. Right now, the manufacturers who could pay the salary for some big talent to get into the series are just not signing up & therein lies the issue (i feel). If Honda pulls out of MotoGP, there will be as much to see there as there is in AMA Superbike right now. Not good.
Sean says:
Hi, Larry. It’s an interesting story, and it’s one that I’ve often pondered. And, as Yamaha’s U.S. Road Racing Press Officer, I will admit that I’m very biased about this subject. Obviously, Josh can only race against the competition that’s presented to him. And I’m eternally grateful that he rides for Monster Energy/Graves/Yamaha.
I do wonder if this is a little bit of a “get-off-my-lawn” viewpoint. I’m as old-school as you, and I suffered through decades of riders like Jamie James and Anthony Gobert and even the Bostrom Brothers riding for Yamaha and not quite being able to get over the hump. Of those iconic riders, Jamie James came the closest, and only a broken EXUP valve prevented him from winning a title.
Of course, Thomas Stevens DID win a SuperBike title for Yamaha, only to take his #1 plate to Kawasaki, which I always thought was unfair (but that’s a whole different issue).
Your assertion that Josh doesn’t face the level of competition that AMA Pro Racing once boasted can just as easily be levied against Mat Mladin and, even, Ben Spies. The fact is, Josh Hayes only rode against Mat for a few races, and he beat Mat head-to-head. Due to circumstances with Honda’s machinations, Josh never got his shot at a SuperBike ride when Mat was in his prime. It’s something we’ll never know.
Again, I’m biased, but I’m not so quick to dismiss the competition that Josh Hayes has faced over the past three years. Ben Bostrom is a former AMA SuperBike Champion and a multi-time World Superbike race winner. Roger Hayden is also a former AMA Champion. Blake Young is Suzuki’s number-one rider and a multi-time Superbike race winner. Josh Herrin is only a rookie, and his talents on a SuperBike are still developing.
It’s arguable that “the show” is even better now than it was back in the Chandler/DuHamel/Russell/Crevier/Polen era. That final race at NJMP last season was arguably the greatest U.S. SuperBike race ever run.
Also, keep in mind that Josh Hayes DID put in a good showing on the Tech 3 Yamaha last year at the final MotoGP race of the season, in Valencia. Admittedly, the conditions were sketchy but, to me, that showcased Josh’s prowess even more. He’s got the talent to be fast in virtually any track conditions. And Josh was in consideration for a MotoGP ride for next year. It’s just that, as Josh puts it, “I’ve got a wife and a mortgage. I can’t ride for free at this point in my career.” Meanwhile, a lot of MotoGP riders ARE riding for free…or even paying to play.
It’d certainly be a great thing if Honda DID come back to SuperBike racing, but its not all about the machinery. The riders are the riders.
Who’s to say that Kenny Roberts would have been so dominant if Giacomo Agostini would have still been in his prime, or if Valentino Rossi were around back then? I appreciate the icons of this sport as much as anyone, but I also don’t let my nostalgia-induced, misty eyes blur my perspective of today’s riders. These guys today train harder, are more analytical, and are year-round, committed athletes much more than our heroes of old.
Luca Cadalora used to smoke like a chimney, and then, he’d climb aboard his bike and win GPs. You won’t find anyone on today’s AMA Pro Road Racing grid smoking cigarettes in the paddock. Smoking rear Dunlops, yes, but not cigarettes. They take this racing business too seriously.
October 17, 2012, 5:20 pmadmin says:
Sean,
Thanks for weighing in. You have some very well-reasoned points that are hard to argue.
I still maintain the talent level is at one of the historically low marks in the history of the series.
And I will take issue with the level of competition Mladin faced.
Mladin racked up his numbers at a time when factory participation was at an all-time high. He raced and beat the likes of Duhamel, Gobert, Bostroms, Hodgson, Chandler, Roberts, Hayes, Zemke, Haydens, Hacking, Yates, Spies. I can go on and on. I think most people who have followed the series as long as we have will say Mladin, overall, faced the deepest fields ever.
Don’t get me wrong. I think Josh Hayes is an incredibly talented rider, but historically, even with his awesome record, he won’t be viewed as elite primarily because of his weak competition.
I’m with you – I believe Josh could go to MotoGP and be a top-five guy and is potentially world champion material in WSBK.
I just wish that if an opportunity presented itself, Josh could race in a world championship to improve his legacy, even if he had to go on an incentive-only contract.
If he stays here for the money, I hope he’ll at least have some more wildcard opportunities.
LL
October 17, 2012, 9:59 pm